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Uber and LastPass breaches – is 2FA all it’s cracked as much as be? [Audio + Text] – Bare Safety

With Doug Aamoth and Paul Ducklin.

DOUG.  Uber hacked, extra on the LastPass breach, and Firefox 105.

All that, and extra, on the Bare Safety Podcast.


Welcome to the podcast, everyone, I’m Doug Aamoth.

With me, as at all times, is Paul Ducklin…

[DRAMATIC VOICE] …the host of Safety SOS Week, a star-studded lineup of interviews with safety specialists working from 26-29 September 2022.

DUCK.  I just like the sound of that, Doug. [LAUGHS]

DOUG.  Sure!

DUCK.  Please be a part of us subsequent week, of us.

It’s the final week of September.

We selected that as a result of it’s the week main as much as Cybersecurity Consciousness Month – that’s not a coincidence.

So, 26, 27, 28, and 29 September 2022.

Every day there’s a 30-minute interview with one in all 4 totally different specialists at Sophos.

We’ve received Fraser Howard, malware professional extraordinaire.

We’ve received Greg Rosenberg, who will clarify the challenges of detecting that somebody is in your community to begin with, so you possibly can head them off earlier than it goes flawed.

There’s Peter Mackenzie from our Incident Response Workforce, who will let you know some fascinating, scary, however very academic tales about attackers that he’s been despatched into bat in opposition to.

And we wrap all of it up with Craig Jones, who will let you know find out how to arrange a SecOps group of your individual.

Craig is the Senior Director of Safety Operations *at Sophos itself*, Doug, so he does cybersecurity in a cybersecurity firm.

He’s a stunning chap, and nicely value listening to.

The URL is:

DOUG.  Can’t wait… I will probably be there!

Please be a part of me, everybody – it is going to be a rollicking good time.

And talking of a rollicking good time, it’s time for our This Week in Tech Historical past section.

One thing that’s close to and expensive to my coronary heart – this week, on 23 September 2008, the world’s first Android telephone was launched.

It was referred to as the T-Cell G1, and it featured a 3.2-inch flip-out display that exposed a full {hardware} keyboard.

It additionally had a trackball and no commonplace headphone jack.

Early critiques had been blended, however hopeful.

Due to Android’s comparatively open nature, G1 went on to promote one million handsets in six months, and at one level accounted for two-thirds of gadgets on T-Cell’s 3G community.

I had a type of gadgets… it was one in all my favourite telephones of all time.

DUCK.  Aaaaah, trackballs on telephones, eh?

Keep in mind the BlackBerries?

It was the factor, wasn’t it… that trackball was actually nice.

DOUG.  It was good for scrolling.

DUCK.  Then they went, “Out with shifting elements,” and it was an infrared sensor or one thing.

DOUG.  Sure.

DUCK.  How instances change, Doug.

DOUG.  Sure… I miss it.

DUCK.  Such as you, I preferred these slide-out keyboards that the early telephones had.

There’s one thing reassuring about really listening to the click-click-click.

I believe what I actually preferred about it’s that whenever you popped out the keyboard, it didn’t obscure half the display.

DOUG.  Precisely!

DUCK.  It wasn’t like half the e-mail you’re studying disappeared whenever you needed to answer.

Which I assume we’ve simply received used to now… that’s the way in which of the world, I suppose.

DOUG.  That was a very long time in the past – easier instances.

Let’s speak in regards to the Firefox 105 launch.

What’s new from a safety standpoint right here, Paul?

DUCK.  Happily, nothing that seems to be within the wild and nothing that charges a crucial degree of vulnerability.

However there are a number of intriguing vulnerabilities.

One wherein a person internet web page that’s cut up right into a bunch of separate IFRAMES might have safety permission leakage between these elements.

So, you might need a less-privileged body from a subdomain in your web site, for instance, that isn’t supposed to have the ability to entry the webcam (as a result of this bug is about system permissions), but it seems to be as if you may really give you the option to take action.

And one other related sounding bug, the place a subdomain of your web site – a weblog or a microsite or one thing like that – might really mess with cookies within the mother or father web site.

Oh, and outdated “stack buffer overflow when initialising graphics”… only a reminder that reminiscence bugs are nonetheless an issue!

And naturally, there’s the same old “reminiscence security bugs mounted in Firefox 105”, and within the Prolonged Assist Launch, which is 102.3.

Do not forget that within the Prolonged Assist Launch, the 2 numbers add collectively: 102+3 = 105.

So, the Prolonged Assist Launch is all the pieces from the principle model quantity, plus three updates value of safety fixes, however with the function fixes held again.

So get it whereas it’s recent.

DOUG.  Please do!

Let’s transfer on to the story of the century, breathlessly reported: “Uber has been hacked.”

Trying slightly nearer at it… sure, it’s unhealthy, it’s embarrassing, nevertheless it might have been a lot, a lot worse.

DUCK.  Sure, Uber has come out with a comply with up report, and it appears that evidently they’re suggesting {that a} hacking group like LAPSUS$ was accountable.

We’ve spoken about LAPSUS$ on the podcast earlier than.

It’s a form of a “let’s do it for the lulz” type of factor, the place it doesn’t look as if they’re really after promoting the information, though they may give it away at no cost or definitely embarrass the corporate with it.

As I say, the embarrassment comes from the obvious extent of the breach, fortuitously, relatively than its depth.

It looks as if the attackers needed to wander round by way of the community as shortly as potential, grabbing screenshots, saying, “Hey, look, right here’s me in all kinds of issues”…

…together with Slack workspaces; Uber’s risk safety software program (in outdated language, the anti-virus); an AWS console; firm journey and bills.

There was a screenshot that I noticed printed that confirmed who’d put within the greatest T&E [travel and expenses] claims in current instances. [LAUGHTER]

We snicker, however there are worker names in there, in order that’s a nasty look as a result of it’s implying that the particular person might have gotten at worker knowledge.

A vSphere digital server console; Google workspaces; and the place the place it appears the hacker really put within the “UBER HAS BEEN HACKED” in capital letters that made the headlines (it even made the Bare Safety headline).

Apparently that was posted to… (oh, expensive, Doug [LAUGHS] – it’s not humorous, but it’s)

…to Uber’s personal bug bounty service, which is a really embarrassing look.

DOUG.  It seems like somebody received a maintain of an Uber polo shirt and put it on, and sweet-talked their well beyond the reception desk saying, “Oh, my badge isn’t working,” or one thing, received into the headquarters after which simply began taking footage of stuff.

Then they wrote on the bulletin board within the worker break room that they’ve been hacked.

It seems like this particular person might have been an Preliminary Entry Dealer [jargon term for hacker who steals passwords and sells them on] in the event that they actually needed to.

They might have achieved so many extra unhealthy issues whereas they had been in there.

However they only took footage, and it was a humiliation to Uber.

DUCK.  Sure.

I believe the important thing element that we might add to your analogy of “getting by way of the principle safety checkpoint” is that, on the way in which in, it additionally appears that they had been capable of attain into the super-secure secret cupboard the place the access-all-areas passes are saved, and purloin one.


DUCK.  In different phrases, they discovered a password in a PowerShell script, on an overtly seen community share…

…so that they solely wanted low degree entry, and that allowed them to get into what was primarily the password supervisor for Uber’s networks.

DOUG.  Sure.

So it’s not that this wasn’t unavoidable.

If we get to the recommendation in your article right here, we’ve got a number of issues that Uber might have achieved in another way.

Beginning with: “Password managers and two-factor authentication will not be a panacea.”

Simply because you may have these… that’s a safety gate, nevertheless it’s not the end-all and be-all to preserving somebody out.

DUCK.  Completely.

We’ll be speaking in regards to the LastPass breach in a minute, the place it appears that evidently the attackers didn’t really have to trouble with the 2FA aspect of issues.

They simply waited till the consumer that they had been shadowing had gone by way of that train themselves, after which “borrowed their go”.

So, certainly, 2FA doesn’t imply, “Oh, now I don’t have to fret about outsiders getting in.”

It does make that preliminary entry a bit tougher, and should make the social engineering extra difficult and extra more likely to stand out.

However as you say, it’s an extra safety gate.

DOUG.  And the subsequent one, on the identical notice, is: “When you’re in, you possibly can’t simply let folks wander round.”

Safety belongs in all places within the community, not simply on the edge.

DUCK.  Do I hear you saying the phrases Zero Belief, Douglas?

DOUG.  [LAUGHS] I used to be going to…

DUCK.  I do know that appears like a little bit of a gross sales schpiel, and (shock, shock) Sophos has a Zero Belief Community Entry product.

However we’ve got that product as a result of I believe it’s one thing that’s demanded by the way in which that fashionable networks function, so that you just solely get the entry you really need for the duty in hand.

And, if you consider it, that doesn’t simply profit the corporate that’s dividing up its community.

It’s additionally good for customers, as a result of it means they will’t make unlucky blunders although they assume they’re making an attempt to do the fitting factor.

DOUG.  And we additionally speak about: “Common cybersecurity measurement and testing”.

If you happen to’re not ready to try this in-house, think about hiring it out, since you want eyes on this across the clock.

DUCK.  Sure.

Two cliches, if I could, Doug?

DOUG.  It’s possible you’ll. [LAUGHS]

DUCK.  Cybersecurity is a journey, not a vacation spot.

You frequently should revisit to verify [A] that you just did accurately what you meant, and [B] that what you deliberate to do yesterday remains to be a legitimate and helpful defence at the moment.

And the thought of getting anyone that can assist you overview what’s occurring, notably whenever you assume one thing unhealthy has simply occurred, is it signifies that you don’t find yourself with safety incidents being main distractions to your common IT and Safety Operations group.

Distractions might really be intentionally seeded by the crooks to behave as a distraction for the assault that they’ve received deliberate for later…

DOUG.  After which lastly, we spherical ited out with a few ideas to your workers: “Arrange a cyber safety hotline to your workers to report incidents”, and belief them that can assist you out by reporting such incidents.

DUCK.  Sure.

Lots of people have determined that individuals are the largest downside.

I believe that’s the flawed means to have a look at it.

Individuals are, the truth is, top-of-the-line methods that you would be able to discover issues that you just didn’t anticipate.

It’s at all times the issues that you just didn’t anticipate that may catch you out, as a result of for those who had anticipated them, you’d in all probability have prevented them within the first place!

Take the objective of turning everybody in your organisation into eyes and ears to your personal safety group.

DOUG.  Excellent!

And we’ve received extra Uber protection.

Paul, you and Chester Wisniewski did an amazing minisode, S3 Ep100.5.

Pure thunder, if I could.

It’s referred to as: Uber breach – An professional speaks.

You possibly can hear Paul and Chet speaking about this explicit breach in slightly bit extra depth:

DUCK.  I believe an important factor that got here out of that minisode of the podcast is what you alluded to earlier, “What if this had been an Preliminary Entry Dealer?”

In different phrases, in the event that they went in particularly to get the passwords and received out quietly.

This sort of broad-but-shallow assault is definitely surprisingly frequent, and in lots of circumstances, as you prompt, the issue is that you just don’t realise it’s occurred.

These crooks exit of their technique to maintain as quiet as potential, and the thought is that they take all these entry passwords, entry tokens, data they’ve received…

…and promote it on the darkweb for different crooks who need to do very particular issues in particular elements of your community.

DOUG.  All proper, we are going to keep on the breach practice, however we’re simply going to modify vehicles on the practice.

We’re going to stroll throughout and watch out to not fall out onto the platform… however we’re going to get into the LastPass automobile.

They’ve received a put up mortem out.

They nonetheless don’t understand how the criminals received in, however a minimum of they admitted it.

And it looks as if it wasn’t essentially for the lulz… thus related however totally different to the Uber breach.

DUCK.  Certainly, it appears that evidently this one, you may say, was deeper however narrower.

I believe the report is an efficient instance of find out how to present data that’s really helpful after an assault.

As you say, they appear to have come out with data that makes it clear what they assume occurred.

They admitted to the “recognized unknowns”.

For instance, they mentioned, “It seems to be as if the crooks implanted malware that was capable of masquerade as a developer who had already logged in with their password and 2FA code.”

They figured that out, however they don’t understand how that implant occurred within the first place, and so they had been first rate sufficient to say they didn’t know.

And I believe that’s fairly good, relatively than simply going, “Oh, nicely, we’ve undoubtedly mounted all the issues and this received’t occur once more.”

If I had been a LastPass consumer, it will make me extra inclined to imagine the opposite issues that I’ve to depend on them to state…

…specifically that the event community the place their code was stolen is separate from their different networks, in order that the attackers weren’t capable of attain out and get issues like buyer knowledge or password hashes.

And I’m additionally inclined to simply accept LastPass’s clarification (as a result of they’re capable of justify it) that even when the crooks *had* been capable of leap from the developer community to the cloud storage elements of the community, and even when that they had been capable of run off with password hashes, it will have been very tough for them to do something with it.

As a result of LastPass merely doesn’t know your grasp password.

They usually have slightly diagram that explains why they imagine that to be the case.

So, I believe, if I had been a Final Go consumer, that I might be inclined to imagine them.

DOUG.  I *am* a Final Go consumer, and I discovered this to be extra reassuring than not.

I wasn’t too fearful about this earlier than, and now I’m barely much less fearful, and definitely not fearful sufficient to dump it wholesale, change all my passwords, and that type of stuff.

So I assumed it was fairly good.

DUCK.  Certainly, one of many issues that individuals got here out with after we first reported on this breach is, “Properly, the crooks received into the supply code management system. In the event that they had been capable of obtain all this mental property, what in the event that they had been capable of add some sneaky and unauthorised modifications on the similar time?”

Possibly they ran off with the code so they might promote the mental property, so industrial espionage was their major car…

…however what if there was a provide chain assault as nicely?

And LastPass did try and reply that query by saying, “We’ve reviewed supply code modifications and so far as we are able to see, the attackers weren’t capable of, or didn’t, make any.”

Additionally, they clarify how even when the crooks had made modifications, there are checks and balances that forestall these modifications simply flowing routinely into the software program that you just may obtain, or that their very own cloud companies may use.

In different phrases, they’ve a bodily separation between the developer community and the manufacturing community, and a full-and-proper code overview and testing course of is required every time for one thing primarily to leap throughout that hole.

I discovered that reassuring.

They’ve taken precautions that make it much less seemingly {that a} provide chain assault within the growth community might attain prospects.

They usually seem to have gone out of their technique to confirm that no such modifications had been made anyway.

DOUG.  Alright, there’s extra on that on, together with a hyperlink to the LastPass briefing itself.

Allow us to now flip to one in all our listeners!

Bare Safety Podcast listener Jonas writes in…

…and that is an oldie-but-a-goodie.

I wouldn’t have believed this myself – I’ve heard this story earlier than in several contexts, and I really witnessed this as I used to be working as a pc technician again within the early 2000s.

This can be a actual downside, and it occurs.

Jonas writes:

“In within the early Nineties, our pc classroom had quite a lot of Apple Macintosh Classics with the three.5-inch floppy drives.

In these days, whenever you wanted to put in issues, you probably did so with a bunch of disks – Insert disk 1; Insert disk 2; and so forth.

Properly, one in all my classmates took the set up directions too actually.

She began with the primary diskette, and after some time the set up course of instructed her to ‘Please insert disk 2’, and she or he did.”

Simply let that sit there for slightly bit…

DUCK.  [LAUGHS A BIT TOO LOUDLY] We shouldn’t snicker, eh?

The directions might have been clearer!

DOUG.  Jonas continues:

“When retelling the story, she mentioned, ‘The second disk was a bit tougher to get in, however I managed to power it in. But it surely nonetheless saved asking for the second disk.’

So she didn’t perceive why it nonetheless wanted disk 2 when she had already inserted disk 1 *and* disk 2… and it was fairly onerous to get the 2 disks out.

And even then, the floppy drive by no means labored once more on that Mac anyway.

It wanted to get replaced, however the entire class realized you wanted to take away the earlier disk earlier than inserting the subsequent one.”

DUCK.  Properly, there you may have it!

DOUG.  I at all times bear in mind my days as a technician at CompUSA.

We had a counter.

Folks would lug their desktop computer systems in, put the desktop up on the counter, and inform us what was flawed.

I noticed a buyer are available and instantly noticed a diskette wedged within the 3.5-inch floppy drive, and I assumed. “Oh my God. I’ve heard this story. I’ve examine it on the web and I’m lastly experiencing it in actual life.”

It didn’t get all the way in which in, however they managed to midway jam a second diskette into the floppy drive, and so they couldn’t get it out.

So we needed to open the case of the pc, disconnect and unscrew the floppy drive, pull the floppy drive out of the entrance of the pc, after which it took a few us to dislodge that diskette.

And, in fact, the disk drive had to get replaced…

Thanks very a lot, Jonas, for sending that in.

When you’ve got an fascinating story, remark or query you’d wish to submit, we’d like to learn it on the podcast.

You possibly can electronic mail, you possibly can touch upon any one in all our articles, or you possibly can hit us up on social: @NakedSecurity.

That’s our present for at the moment.

Thanks very a lot for listening.

For Paul Ducklin, I’m Doug Aamoth, reminding you till subsequent time to…

BOTH.  Keep safe!




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